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The White Stuff
Tuesday, February 09, 2010
Josh White Jr is a chip off the old block. By Tony Hillier.
Some surnames must hang like millstones around sons’ necks, especially if the offspring shares the same Christian name. If the father also happens to be one of the most famous and revered figures in the annals of American music, you could forgive the son for cursing rather than celebrating his paternal inheritance.
Josh White, Jr is not in the least bit ambivalent about his legacy. Indeed, he palpably embraces his name and everything his heritage represents.
Josh White (1914-1969) is widely regarded as the artist primarily responsible for introducing blues and black folk and spiritual music to white America and the rest of the world. White was a singer, guitarist and songwriter, whose prolific output of recordings included country and urban blues, folk, gospel and jazz. The first black artist to have a million selling record (‘One Meatball’ c. 1944), he is cited as a major musical influence by a legion of legends-to-be, including Bob Dylan, Elvis Presley, Brownie McGhee, Pete Seeger, Nat King Cole, Harry Belafonte, Eartha Kitt, Odetta, Ray Charles, Merle Travis, Ry Cooder and John Fogerty.
A hard-hitting social commentator, civil rights activist and protest songwriter, Josh White was the closest African-American confidant to President Franklin D. Roosevelt, and friends to Kings and Queens. He was the first black artist to give a White House Command Performance and the first to perform in previously segregated hotels. He became a star of film and stage.
Josh White, Jr, coming to a festival near you in March and April, is a veritable chip off the old block. Since first performing with his father in public as a tiny tot back in the early1940s, this charismatic singer, guitarist and storyteller has notched up a comparably impressive CV, performing for popes, presidents and prime ministers, as well as for prisoners, and the poorest of the poor. He has recorded dozens of albums in folk, blues and gospel styling, and is a TONY Award-winning actor. In 1998, White performed a concert tribute to his father on Washington’s National Mall.
In 2001, in the tragic aftermath of 9/11, he was the first and only artist granted to perform a memorial tribute on the site of the World Trade Center. The recipient of Humanitarian Awards and Honorary Doctorates, he has brought his own awareness to social injustices and the struggles of black society. In a wide-ranging interview with Rhythms, Josh White responded with characteristic generosity to your correspondent’s questioning. Here is an abridged version (the full version will be posted at http://www.rhythms.com.au).
Attempting to follow in the footsteps of a father as famous as your dad could, I should imagine, have been a daunting prospect. Were you ever tempted to take a different career path or did you have no option?
Since I began performing at the age of three, I experienced the comfort of the stage at an early age. I also grew up on that stage under the tutelage of a great solo artist. Watching and learning how he could captivate an audience was compelling. That experience also taught me the great freedom that a solo artist can have on stage, to interact with the audience and change his set on the spin of coin. By the time I was a young man, I was probably more comfortable on stage than off. However, I did fantasize what it might have been like if I had been a forest ranger, or I had worked with horses as a cowboy or blacksmith – three professions that always intrigued me.
Do you consider yourself the keeper of the flame, as it were?
My father’s music and social activism is infused in what I do and am today. His guitar style is employed in many of my recordings of songs he never heard. As an artist-activist, I learned from him — and feel that it is my responsibility to all peoples of this planet, that I must continue to encourage people to speak out on issues, appreciate diversity and continue the thought that we on this planet are of one nation-one people.
What was the best piece of advice your dad imparted to you as a fellow performer?
He told me and my four performing sisters two things that I’ve lived by: Firstly, if you’re going to sing a song, you’ve got to believe it … because if you don’t believe what you’re singing, those that you are singing to won’t believe it. You have to live within your song. Secondly, if you’re going to sing a song, make sure that people understand the words that you are singing. Without specifically telling me, there was a third lesson I learned from watching him perform. If the audience was still talking when he began a concert, he would start singing softer so that they would have to stop talking in order to hear him; and if he was performing in a nightclub and people were talking at one of the tables, he would just stop playing … and stare at the table till they stopped. It never failed.
Did you enjoy performing with him as a young kid? Do you have strong memories of your earliest performances together?
Of course, I enjoyed performing with my father as a child. Singing with my father in front of audiences was fun and seemed natural … as anything a child does with his parent is always special to him or her. It also was a means of receiving instant gratification from the adoring audiences … and of course, all children love attention. It was also fun to meet and work with famous people; and what child wouldn’t get excited about being led through the streets of the city with police escorts!”
Among my most vivid memories was singing with my father at a War Bond Rally in New York’s Central Park in 1944, along with Frank Sinatra and other artists on the bill, to raise moneys for the war effort. And, of course, it was always exciting performing at Café Society, where the audience cheering us and singing with us often included Billie Holiday, Cab Calloway, Ethel Merman, Paul Robeson, Jose Ferrer, Mary Martin, Lena Horne, Dizzy Gillespie, Edward G. Robinson, Adam Clayton Powell, Langston Hughes, Zero Mostel, Libby Holman, Montgomery Clift, Ethel Waters, and the Roosevelt family. As a kid, it was always exciting to ride home from a concert in a huge limousine.
How did your relationship with him as a performer evolve over the years you played together?
The first seven or eight years, I just sang with him — as a toddler, standing on the seat of a chair where his foot was perched, his guitar on the knee and my head by the microphone. At the age of eleven I began playing the guitar with him on stage. Then as I got older, after singing a few duets, he would leave the stage and allow me the opportunity to be out there alone, and to learn and grow from that experience. Finally, at the age of 21, I find out that our manager started booking me on the road as a solo act without my father. It was time!
How hard was it to branch out on your own as a solo concert performer and recording artist after playing with your father for so many years?
I was a little nervous at first, but after the first week I was pretty comfortable in my skin. I might add that in 1961, it was also easier to make the transition because there were a lot of popular coffeehouse venues across the country where folksingers could perform, as opposed to nightclubs where the patrons drank too much and became noisy. The only other problem I recall is that the first few venues I went to, the marquee and the advertising read ‘JOSH WHITE, Jr’. However, after those experiences, all my contracts dictated that the billing had to place the JR. at equal size.
Of all your father’s many considerable achievements, which are you most proud of?
Naturally, having him honoured on the National Mall in Washington, D.C. with the unveiling of his own postage stamp in 1998 was the culmination of his life’s work … and it was so special that my mother got to see the mock-up of the stamp one week before she died. However, I think I am most proud — and I would like to believe in my heart that it was the core reason he was honoured with the postage stamp — was because of his strong stance against racism in the 1930s, ‘40s, ‘50s and ‘60s and his willingness to sing out and speak out against it with a message that had to be heard … even at a time in America when it could be life-threatening to do so.
Which of your own not inconsiderable achievements and awards give you most satisfaction?
I am truly grateful for and humbled by all the honours that have been bestowed upon me. However, I think the two honours that meant the most to me were my being chosen to host, MC and sing for Pope John Paul II on his first tour of America, even though I was not a Catholic; and on April 20, 1983, when the State of Michigan officially proclaimed it ‘Josh White and Josh White Jr. Day’, upon the premiere of the musical I starred in based on his life, Josh.
In 1999, thirty years after your father’s death, you recorded a tribute album, House of the Rising Son, covering a dozen of his songs, including ‘Strange Fruit’ and ‘One Meatball’. Which, if any, of those songs do you tend to play these days?
Any of the songs from that album may be heard in any of my concerts. And, whenever I am asked to perform specific blues concerts or tribute concerts to my father, there is a good chance I will often sing all of those songs.
In what way do your versions differ from his?
Though our vocal sounds may have differences, I sing the songs and play the guitar parts true to his creations and arrangements, so as to show people what he sounded like.
Have you toured Australia before?
In the late ‘eighties, Peter Noble [now Executive Director of Bluesfest] promoted me on a two-week tour. Virtually every show was a full house and the audiences were wonderfully receptive and giving. I loved the experience of travelling through Australia and embraced the beauty of the country and meeting the people. Ever since that time, I’ve been hoping to return, but things never seemed to work out with my schedule and Australia’s. Happily, at a music convention early in 2009, Peter Noble ran into Jamie McKew [the Producer of the Port Fairy Folk Festival] who had produced my Melbourne show back in the ‘80s. During their conversation, they happened to reminisce about my ‘86 tour, decided they had to spearhead a new tour using their two festivals as anchor dates, and they contacted my manager, Doug Yeager. This led to more festivals and other venues coming on board, and a five-week tour has been arranged for March and April.
Did you father ever tour here?
It is my understanding that my father was the first American blues and folk recording artist to tour Australia, so it’s nice to keep the tradition and the relationship with Australia going. In 1944, an Australian sailor on leave in New York City came down to the legendary Café Society to hear my dad perform.
After the show, the sailor waited in line outside the dressing room until it was his turn to meet the old man. During their conversation, the sailor mentioned that he played guitar and sang folksongs back home. Curious, my dad asked him to play one of the traditional Australian folk songs. Borrowing Dad’s guitar, the sailor commenced to play and sing a jaunty, lively, up-tempo song called ‘Waltzing Matilda’. Dad was fascinated by the song, asked the sailor to write the words down, and then asked for the guitar back so that he could try it out. However, instead of performing it the way it had been presented to him, he immediately began playing and singing the song as a sentimental waltz.
The next week, Dad recorded the song with his new arrangement for the US Government’s V-Disc label. A week later, he performed it on an Armed Forces Radio Concert from Hollywood, and then later on his own radio show. Within weeks it had become a hit record in America, and soon travelled around the world. I don’t remember if I was working with my dad that night at the Café Society when the sailor taught the song to him, but I do know that the song has been part of my live repertoire for the past 65 years. Naturally, I want to sing ‘Waltzing Matilda’ for all the Australians who come to hear me on my tour.
Depending upon the situation and location, I may perform solo, or accompanied by a bass player, and at times with my band. Through the years, I’ve recorded an equal amount of blues, folk, and gospel music, in addition to creating a rather large children’s music repertoire. When performing folk or children’s concerts, I usually perform solo, accompanied only by my guitar.
However, whenever I’m asked to perform blues or gospel concerts I feel more comfortable having that additional rhythm ‘walking’ behind me. When performing in large, more commercial venue concerts in the States — especially in a 200-mile radius of my home outside of Detroit — I use my band.
For this Australian tour, the promoters are providing the bass players for me. There are so many great bass players around the world that I’ve been fortunate enough to have quality players provided for me by local promoters in every country I tour. With the advent of the Internet, I’m able to forward them MP3s song files and charts in advance via email, and when I get to town, we only need to do one rehearsal and then jump on the stage. No one has ever disappointed me. It’s been great! And I develop life-relationships with so many great players that way. Unfortunately, I don’t know the names of my Australian bass players yet, for I would certainly like to give them kudos in advance.
Do you tend to do much collaborating with other artists, particularly on albums?
From 1944 until to 1961, when I embarked on my own career, I collaborated, as protégé and mentor, with my father in concert and nightclub presentations, radio shows, radio concerts, Broadway plays, recordings, and television shows and TV concert specials — both here in the States and in Europe. I also joined him on some European tours and TV specials up till 1965, and in special concerts and Command Performances.
Between 1950 and 1965, my four sisters — Bunny, Beverly, Fern and Judy — would also occasionally join us in concerts, recordings and TV specials. From 1978 till 1998, my sisters would often join me in the studio for the gospel songs I recorded, including the theme songs for the Peace Corps and Vista. In 1980, I enjoyed collaborating with Odetta, Tom Paxton and Bob Gibson in the PBS-TV Concert Special Just Folks, and its subsequent tour. In 1986, I recorded my first tribute album to my dad, Jazz, Ballads and Blues in an instrumental collaboration with violinist Robin Batteau and bassist Jerry Burnham, and it received a Grammy nomination. I also recorded the children’s album, All the Children, with old friend Ron Coden, which led to a subsequent PBS-TV Special. From 2001 till 2006, I toured the USA with my dear old friends Odetta and Ramblin’ Jack Elliott in the show Glory Bound, which paid tribute to Leadbelly, Woody Guthrie and my father.
Is your new album, Live at the Raven Gallery, representative of your current shows?
These 1978-1979 recordings made at Detroit’s legendary Raven Gallery, were performed with a bassist, a second guitarist and an audience full of great singers all supporting me. It was my normal folk show, the format of which hasn’t changed too much in 30 years — some folk, some blues, some inspirational and some great sing-a-longs with the audience. The songs may have changed, but the format of the show is similar to a normal Josh White, Jr. folk concert today. Live at the Raven Gallery is not the only new album I’m coming out with in early 2010. I’m now in the studio finishing a new blues album, Tuning the Blues, which will include some of my father’s blues numbers, plus blues songs by other friends of mine such as the late Stevie Goodman, in addition to Bessie Smith’s ‘Backwater Blues’, which my father also recorded.
Which of your guitars will be accompanying you down under?
I will be touring with my Franklin guitar, which I’ve been using primarily for the past 33 years, except for doing special tribute shows to my father in the States, where I will use one of his guitars. Franklin guitars were originally made by two brothers in Michigan, who then moved their operation to Sands Point, Idaho. Originally, I went in to buy a Martin Guitar that day — as I had always played a Martin — but this guitar just spoke to me and I’ve been playing it every since.
What subjects have you addressed in recent songs?
The perpetual addressing of our ‘oneness’ with each other, be it in different forms of song, will always be a subject I am addressing. Songs to keep us aware of the responsibility to each other … songs about the social condition … songs about environment and world we live in … songs about peace … songs about unity. Most recently, I have had the very special opportunity to work with incarcerated teenagers in lock-down facilities, where I would put music to their poems and stories. Their lives and dreams are so important to me, that I must keep their stories alive in my concerts.
What, in your opinion, is the most powerful song you’ve written and why?
‘Say a Prayer For a Stranger’, heard on the Live at Raven Gallery album. The title answers the ‘why’.
You describe yourself as an “educator”, amongst other things. In what ways do you educate?
In 1991, I met a woman name Randi Douglas, an actress and educator from Oregon while doing a collaboration with her for the Detroit Historical Museum. She discussed a teaching program she started that originated in the 1950s by the English actress Dorothy Heathcot, called ‘Drama Process Teaching’. She was using this process to teach history in Detroit’s inner-city schools. The process brings history to the students, as they become the people they’re learning about. Her classes always had 100 per cent attendance, which is unheard of in America’s inner cities.
I was intrigued how this unassuming white woman could have such an impact in Detroits’ rough inner city African-American school system. Later that year, I became her partner, and we created new scenarios for teaching history. I began composing music to the new words and stories Randi would write for the new two-hour history units we would create.
Today, our program is called ‘Living History’, a curriculum based on a kinaesthetic multiple intelligent teaching process in the classroom, and we’ve been going out to the schools throughout Michigan for eighteen years now. After becoming aware of our program, my friend Noel Paul Stookey’s Public Domain Foundation has funded the making of a video to promote ‘Living History’.
Do you do much acting these days?
The most recent work I’ve done is to complete the narration for a documentary film promoting the Public Domain Foundation, and organization founded and led by my old friend Noel Paul Stookey of Peter, Paul & Mary and his daughter Elizabeth, which has developed an effective curriculum to both introduce how songs have effected social change and to help artists create and promote such music.
I am so impressed by the work Noel and Elizabeth are doing. Their diverse generosity has helped day camps survive, put fledgling agencies on the map, supported music ventures focused on children, aided Central American relief efforts and even ensured the sustainability of a rural community radio station. Meanwhile, I am hoping to get back on the stage and in front of the camera before the end of 2010. I’m not sure yet, what I’m going to do, but one of the possibilities is to do a new production of Josh, the musical play based on my father’s life and music which I first premiered in 1983, and haven’t performed in more than a decade.
Have any of your kids pursued careers in music or showbiz?
My oldest biological son, Josh ‘Buddah’ White III, studied acting at the university. He then acted in children’s plays, wrote a children’s play that was published and presented on stage; and he studied under and performed with Marcel Marceau, who had been a fan of my father’s. Later on he taught acting at Notre Dame University, in the state of Indiana.
Do you have abiding memories of your father’s famous musical associates? I’ll just throw some quick ‘thought-bites’ at you.
BOB DYLAN: The first time I saw Dylan perform was at Gerdes Folk City. Bobby was excitedly carrying the acetate of his first album under his arm. The club’s owner, Mike Porko, introduced us, and I stayed for his set. While watching him, I thought: ‘The songs are good, but the kid will never make it’.
LEADBELLY: I remember going over to Leadbelly’s apartment with my father. He was dressed in his suit pants and white shirt, though we had shared a lot of stages. The one thing that sticks out in my mind is how sick he was and that he kept coughing into a handkerchief. He was dead within two months.
SONNY TERRY & BROWNIE MCGHEE: Sonny and Brownie opened a concert for my father the night I was born, and they accompanied him to the hospital that night to see me. Forty years later, I shared the stage with them in New York.
BILL ‘BOJANGLES’ ROBINSON: My dad and I were performing at an NAACP rally at Madison Square Garden with many stars. Backstage, I was hanging out with Bojangles and was asking him about the movies he made with Shirley Temple that I love so much. When we parted, he said to me: ‘Josh, the next time we’re together, I’ll show you how to dance up and down the stairs the way Shirley and I did.’ One week later he died.
JONI MITCHELL, JOHN SEBASTIEN & CO: I had known John Sebastian since he was a kid, as his dad was a famous harmonica player in Greenwich Village. I also used to hang out with John Phillips and Scott McKenzie when they were known as the Journeyman; and also hung out a lot with Mama Cass Elliott, Denny Doherty and Sal Yanovsky when they were known as the Mugwumps. Within two years, John Phillips, Mama Cass and Denny Doherty were making sweet music as the Mamas & Papas; Zal and John Sebastian had formed the Lovin’ Spoonful; and Scott McKenzie would soon have his big hit ‘San Francisco’, which John Phillips wrote. I also often worked with Chuck and Joni Mitchell at the Raven Gallery before Joni went out on her own; and with David Crosby, when he and his brother had a duo, long before Buffalo Spingfield or CS&N. Working with and getting to know Odetta, Nina Simone and Miriam Makeba was a real honour. My many tours and the friendships developed with Odetta, Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, Tom Paxton, Bob Gibson, Richie Havens and Oscar Brand leave many fond memories. I got to know Quincy Jones when he produced my dad and me in our Live at Town Hall album in 1960. And as an actor, I was honoured to share the Broadway stage with many of the greats, including the silent film star Dorothy Gish, the brilliant Arthur O’Connell, and with Alan Alda in his first Broadway play.
ELEANOR ROOSEVELT: She used to come hear me and my dad sing at most of our New York concerts. We would also give fundraising concerts up at her Hyde Park mansion, and often spend our Thanksgivings and Christmas with the Roosevelts. My last visit with her up in Hyde Park was as a teenager. I remember going skeet shooting with her grandson that day.
JOE LOUIS: Joe was my childhood hero, and a close friend of my dad’s. He would often come to the Café Society to see us perform. After partying late one night, he wanted to come to our home and give me his boxing gloves. Unfortunately, they couldn’t wake me up that night … but in the morning, the Champ’s gloves were sitting at the foot of my bed. At Café Society, every night we partied, sang and socialised with all the progressive stars in New York.
ROBERT MITCHUM and SHIRLEY MACLAINE: One day when I was about twenty, I urged my dad to take me to meet Robert Mitchum and Shirley MacLaine, on whom I had a crush, as they were making the movie Two For The Seesaw in New York. A few days later, he told me to get in the car and take a ride with him without saying where we were going. We drove downtown from Harlem, parked the car near Central Park and started walking into the park. Soon, we were approaching the buzz of a movie being made, and then standing right on the set. Within a minute, Robert Mitchum ran over and gave my dad a big hug and starts talking to him about the old records. Many people don’t know that Mitchum was a folksinger, played the guitar and wrote songs. He then gave me a big greeting, shook my hand, and then took me over to meet Shirley MacLaine. It was a great thrill for me.
EARTHA KITT: Though I was small for my age I reached puberty before most of my contemporaries. At the age of twelve, I was doing a fundraising concert with a lot stars, including Eartha Kitt, who was a protégé of my dad’s. Since she felt a closeness with me and thought of me as a kid, she decided it would be nice if she and I shared a dressing room. When she started casually undressing and dressing in front of me, let’s just say, I could have died and gone to heaven!
THE CLANCY BROTHERS: I remember the Clancy Brothers’ first performance, which was opening for my dad and me, and then having so much fun with them through the years, and appearing with Liam last year in the documentary on his life.
PETER, PAUL & MARY: They opened for my dad and me in Boston at one of their first engagements. I’ve stayed close friends with them through the years, and I just narrated a film for Paul Stookey’s foundation.
Josh White Jr performs at Port Fairy Festival (March 5-8), Blue Mountains Music Festival (March 12-14), Apollo Bay Music Festival (March 26-28), Bluesfest (April 3 & 4) and at various venues around Australia.
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